City of Tustin Finds Their Asbestos “Doctor Downplay” – “Time will tell with asbestos and exposures,” “Unfortunately”, we don’t really know until about 20 to 30 years from now – Health officials had ‘dire’ concerns at start of Tustin hangar fire

When the Tustin Marine Corps Air Station’s northern blimp hangar caught on fire on Nov. 7, officials were gravely concerned about the possible health implications.

“In the beginning, I thought it was dire, right?” the county’s health officer, Dr. Regina Chinsio-Kwong, said. “I thought like, ‘Oh my goodness, it’s a large building that had a lot of different hazards in it,’ and I was thinking, of course, worst-case scenario, so that we can help protect individuals, or at least make sure that people would hopefully heed the guidance to minimize their exposure.”

Asbestos, lead and arsenic were detected in samples collected near the hangar the day it broke out, according to the South Coast Air Quality Management District. The Orange County Health Care Agency began advising people to avoid touching any ash or debris from the fire.

Some Tustin residents left their homes for weeks out of concern, and schools near the hangar were closed. Asbestos debris from the fire was found throughout Tustin; a cleanup effort led by the city continues with more than 1,400 homes affected.

Now, health officials say the community was spared the worst case and the health risk from the hangar fire has been minimal. Despite their assurances, some residents continue to worry about possible ongoing exposure and say they hope the city will do more testing and cleaning.

Over time, Chinsio-Kwong said she’s been reassured by environmental health experts and the extensive testing that indicates a limited risk to residents near the hangar. Air sampling never detected asbestos, according to health officials. Dust samples collected at city-owned parks and facilities did detect some asbestos at higher-than-background levels, according to lab tests obtained via a records request, and city officials said they have been cleaned by its contractors.

“Time will tell with asbestos and exposures,” Chinsio-Kwong said. “Unfortunately, we don’t really know until about 20 to 30 years from now, but I am feeling a little bit more reassured with the experts and their guidance saying, ‘Again, it’s more of a chronic occupational exposure that really puts people at risk for lung issues long-term and not these one-times incidents.’”

Early concerns

The hangar fire broke out just before 1 a.m. on Nov. 7. Less than six hours later, the Orange County Fire Authority decided to let the fire burn itself out because of safety concerns if it were to collapse with firefighters nearby.

The Marine Corps Air Station’s two blimp hangars were constructed in 1942, and were two of the largest wooden structures ever built. Dubbed “Titans of History” by the city, they have been a beloved backdrop of life in Tustin for decades, even after the base closed in 1999. Future uses have long been debated for the historic hangar structures, which contained asbestos and lead, according to a 2020 Orange County Grand Jury report.

“This could be one of the large scale asbestos exposure incidents and there is concern for residents as well as anyone in the local area during the fire, and this immediate period following the fire,” Chinsio-Kwong wrote to a colleague on Nov. 8 in an email obtained by The Orange County Register. The county health officer said she would advocate closing parks and local schools “until I can get better answers on the magnitude of asbestos levels.”

The hangar fire spewed asbestos chunks into homes and parks. The county health agency told residents to not touch the debris and to wear protective gear if “there is a high risk of encountering asbestos.”

There were concerns if the hangar doors would hold up. A collapse could send more debris into nearby homes. Chinsio-Kwong asked Orange County Fire Authority Division Chief Scott Wiedensohler in a text on Nov. 12 what the risk was.

“Confidence is pretty high that they won’t collapse,” he responded in a text back, adding steel beams hold the doors in place. “That said there’s always a chance. I’ve been playing that scenario through my mind all week.”

They didn’t collapse, and a contractor removed the door panels in December. Today, only four large concrete pillars remain from what was the north hangar. A contractor, over the weekend, sprayed additional tackifier to cover the debris remaining where the hangar once stood, “out of an abundance of caution in advance of potential future winter weather,” city officials said.

The fire smoldered for weeks after it began. Some residents moved away from their homes, staying at hotels or with friends or families. The Orange County Sheriff’s training academy closed for several weeks and the nearby OC Animal Care shelter kept the dogs and other animals inside, asking community members to step up and foster some to alleviate the crowding.

Air monitoring units were set up at more than 30 locations around the hangar, and no asbestos has been detected in more than 900 air samples, Christopher Kuhlman, a toxicologist and industrial hygienist at the Center for Toxicology and Environmental Health, said in December.

The highest concentration of fallout from the hangar is about a 1.4-mile radius around the hangar, Chinsio-Kwong said. City contractors for weeks have removed debris chunks from public rights-of-ways and the exteriors of people’s homes.

Results of testing the first week of the fire by the city’s contractor, Envirocheck, which haven’t been publicly posted, showed asbestos at higher than background levels at two city-owned facilities.

At Magnolia Tree Park, which is just under a mile northeast of the hangar, dust sampling taken on Nov. 11 detected asbestos fibers at above background levels inside the women’s restroom, on the floor and a changing table.

Testing also detected asbestos at above background levels on Nov. 12 at the Tustin Family & Youth Center – about two miles away from the hangar – on the preschool entry floor, a classroom west entry floor and a kitchen countertop.

Dr. Arthur Frank, who testifies in hundreds of legal cases a year related to asbestos and has advised officials in Tustin, said it’s unlikely that samples taken at those distances were from asbestos fibers released by the fire.

Kuhlman, who has been advising the city, also said you can’t know for sure if the asbestos in the dust samples came from the fire.

“The testing doesn’t distinguish between any specific source of asbestos, so you really can’t answer that question,” Kuhlman said.

The city closed parks on Nov. 8 and reopened them over the course of several weeks after contractors cleaned them.

Stephanie Najera, a spokesperson for the city said in an email that asbestos contractor ATI cleaned up city parks using industry-standard practices, including HEPA vacuuming and wet wiping of all horizontal surfaces and removing any potential asbestos debris. After cleanup, a certified asbestos consultant rechecked the locations before reopening.

The city, in its effort to get disaster aid from the state and federal governments, has told the California Governor’s Office of Emergency Service that the hangar fire has affected more than 12,000 people.

Those who live closest to the hangar say tests they have contracted for on their own continue to show the presence of asbestos and lead around their homes.

At a community meeting of concerned residents near the hangar last week, they spoke of their want for more testing, more extensive remediation of their homes than what’s been done, reimbursement for testing they paid for out of pocket and a plan to be shared for what will happen with the south hangar.

Acting City Manager Nicole Bernard, in a Dec. 29 letter to Cal OES, said emergency proclamations from the governor and president could lead to residents getting financial assistance for necessary expenses caused by the fire.

The city’s contractors have focused on picking up debris chunks around the exterior areas of homes. The city in December said it would start testing soil and the interiors of homes for asbestos and lead, but so far details for how residents can get their homes tested haven’t been released.

Susan Keefe, a resident near the hangar, said the contractors cleaning only the exteriors of people’s homes isn’t enough.

“They should be taking a top-down approach,” Keefe said. “They should be starting at people’s roofs and going down from there because otherwise, it’s just going to keep showing up again.”

If people heeded health advice, such as not touching fire debris, keeping windows closed and wearing masks and gloves, then their risk long term is minimal, Chinsio-Kwong said.

But she acknowledged the health guidance during the fire didn’t reach everyone. As the fire continued to burn, she saw people outside near the hangar not taking preventative measures.

“This is the learned lesson. We need to learn ways of really communicating in different ways to the community because not everybody listens to the news, not everybody listens to the radio, not everybody looks at the press releases,” Chinsio-Kwong said. “So, there’s got to be other mechanisms to get the word out.”

Frank said the hangar fire is not one people should spend the rest of their lives worrying about. At a late December community webinar, Frank said he considered being outside while the fire burned a “very low risk of exposure.”

If people should be worried, Frank, who is a professor at Drexel University, said he’d be the first one to go to bat for them in court.

“The likelihood,” he said, “of ever detecting asbestos disease from this (incident) is extraordinarily remote.”

Tustin California Pleas for More Help from Navy, State in Hangar Fire Aftermath – Could Hangar Fire Bankrupt the City?

City leaders are pleading for more help from the state and federal government to support cleanup efforts in the fallout from the massive hangar fire that broke out almost a month ago at the closed Marine Corps Air Station Tustin.

“We need the Navy to not only step up in terms of funding, but in terms of actively leading the recovery effort,” Mayor Austin Lumbard said Tuesday. “The city has filled the void in the interim, but now that the fire is extinguished, we’re really looking for the Navy to take ownership of their property and their recovery leadership.”

Officials said the city has depleted what it could take from its reserves to fund asbestos testing and cleanup in the public and residential areas surrounding the burnt northern hangar and are counting on other government agencies to step up.

Cleanup costs are expected to be in the tens of millions for addressing in the surrounding neighborhoods. Lumbard called the $1 million the Navy committed early on “grossly insufficient.”

Navy officials on Wednesday said the service has been working with the city since day one of the fire and in no way is shirking its responsibilities or its share of funding.

“We are working on an amendment to an agreement to provide additional funding,” said Chris Dunne, a Navy spokesman. “We knew the $1 million wasn’t going to do it. The Navy fully intends to support what the city is doing and fund that to the fullest amount we can.”

Dunne acknowledged that setting up the funding agreement has taken weeks, but expects more money to make its way to the city in days. Officials are now figuring out the Navy’s financial responsibility and what will be covered, he said.

“It’s just one of those tedious processes of getting the language just right and trying to remember through this whole process that we’re talking about people and the community and taking care of people and not getting too bogged down in process at a time when the help is needed,” Dunne said.

The City Council on Tuesday asked to continue efforts to pressure local, state and federal officials for help with the response. City leaders are also asking for additional health guidance from the county health agency. Residents have peppered local leaders with questions about what is and isn’t safe to do in and around their homes, such as walking dogs or using outdoor barbecue pits.

All the councilmembers echoed the calls for help. Councilmember Letitia Clark implored the county public health director for clearer answers about “simple things.”

When asked Wednesday for comment, a representative of the OC Health Care Agency sent a link to Tustin’s North hangar fire community resource page.

Clark said the emergency is not over and the city still needs help from higher levels of government.

“There were a lot of promises made that we would have that support and it’s kind of dwindled as time has gone by,” Clark said.

Tustin declared a local emergency on Nov. 10 and the county followed up with its own on Nov. 13. Both times the city and county each asked the governor to declare a state of emergency.

“The governor has yet to act,” Lumbard said. “We are committed to getting that state help that we ultimately need to free up some resources for our recovery.”

Since the fire’s outbreak, the Navy has deferred to the city for what the next steps are, Dunne said, because “the Navy is not equipped to handle this type of response compared to what local officials can do.”

Regarding the hangar footprint, the Navy will lead the cleanup there and hire experts and contractors. While no exact timeline has been set for that, Dunne said he expects that to happen “in the next few weeks.”

“We’ll look at what needs to be deconstructed from the site and removed all the debris,” he said, adding that at present a product that seals the debris in place has been put over the site to “create a crust.”

Work is expected to begin Thursday, Dec. 7, to take down the 120-foot tall hangar doors that remain standing, officials said. Cranes and rigging have already been set up around the hangar and removing the doors will take about two weeks.

After the fire was confirmed completely extinguished on Dec. 1, the Orange County Fire Authority stepped down from leading the Incident Management Team and disaster recovery contractors from Innovative Emergency Management will now lead the team.

Colin Cummings, an official with IEM, said during a presentation to the City Council Tuesday that debris will not be removed from the site during door deconstruction.

“The Navy will be responsible for all debris removals from (the) incident site, and is working to assign a contractor at this time to perform that work,” Cummings said. “When the Navy is ready to start taking that material off the incident site, we will be increasing (air) monitoring just because of all the additional risks of breaking that material apart, and removing it into those containers and taking it off site.”

The Navy has yet to explain how it plans to address remediation on the entire site, Lumbard said. Air monitoring will remain active surrounding the hangar until the site has been completely cleaned by the Navy.

Assemblymember Cottie Petrie-Norris, who represents Tustin, sent a letter on Tuesday to the Navy asking for an update on its efforts and if it would commit to expanding debris cleanup and reimbursing people who have paid for asbestos remediation out of pocket.

The city on Wednesday hosted its first community Zoom meeting to provide updates on recovery efforts. OCFA Division Chief Scott Wiedensohler said in the meeting that more than 60% of the surrounding community has been cleaned up as of Dec. 1.

Future community meetings will be 10 a.m. on Wednesdays. Residents are asked to send new questions and requests regarding the hangar fire to [email protected].

Tustin California Mayor Austin Lumbard Talks like the City is in the Poorhouse – but – a $61.2 Million Dollar City of Tustin Capital Improvement Budget – $26 Million Dollars in Reserve Money – Huge Salaries – Pensions and Benefits – and the City of Tustin has to “Wait” for a $1 Million Dollar Handout from the Navy to Begin Assisting Hangar Fire Victims – It’s All Just More – Crocodile Tears


Hangar fire: Tustin to get $1 million from Navy to start cleaning up neighborhoods

Officials also are answering lingering questions from residents about health risks, pet safety, testing and more.

The Tustin City Council approved an agreement with the U.S. Navy during an emergency meeting Friday, Nov. 10, that will give the city $1 million in federal funds to start cleaning up potentially toxic debris still covering homes, businesses and public spaces after the Navy’s vacant blimp hangar caught fire earlier this week.

The agreement doesn’t cover cleanup of the charred north hangar, which Tustin Mayor Austin Lumbard reiterated is still the Navy’s responsibility. But he said the agreement will allow Tustin to “move as quickly as possible” to start helping residents, who are looking to the city for guidance on what to do with ash, chunks of blackened fiber and other materials scattered around their homes.

“We need to get it off of their property so they can move on with their lives,” Lumbard said during the meeting. He added, “To the extent that we can mobilize resources to remove that debris as quickly as possible, that’s gonna be a big relief for our neighborhoods.”

Residents have so far largely been following advice from county and air quality authorities, who’ve told them not to touch debris from the hangar fire since positive tests for asbestos, lead, arsenic and nickle. But even that advice has been confusing.

Instructions the county sent out Thursday first stated that residents should not “disturb” any ash or debris and instead call for help. But in the same advisory, they encouraged residents to wash debris off property.

Asked about that seeming contradiction, Third District Supervisor Don Wagner, chair of the county Board of Supervisors, said the right approach depends on the type of debris.

“If it’s just ash and the normal soot from a fire, it is my understanding that it is safe to hose off.” Hosing the material off is key, he said, since sweeping it up or using a leaf blower would kick some of the debris back up into the air.

As for larger pieces of debris found on properties, Wagner said the initial advice was to use gloves to pick that material up and place it in trash bags. But with results showing the presence of asbestos and other toxic materials, he said the recommendation now is to call the county’s newly established hotline at 714-628-7085 to request help in cleaning that material up.

The county and city of Tustin are partnering to hire consultants trained to safely handle such materials who will be available to remove debris from people’s private property, Wagner said. That work would begin “certainly over the weekend,” if not sooner, he said. Residents just need to call the county hotline to initiate the process.

The same crews will be working to clean up public spaces such as streets and parks, per Wagner. And he said they’ll be coordinating with homeowners associations and other groups to advise on cleaning those properties.

The area could see some rain early next week, per weather forecasts. Wagner said that should help settle what’s in the air and wash some remaining ash and soot away.

City, county and federal representatives expressed frustration Thursday that no one from the Navy, which owns the hangar and land around it, had been to Tustin since the fire broke out early Tuesday. As of Friday morning, Wagner said he’d been told a Navy team would be arriving “within the next several days.”

“The reality is the fire is still smoldering. That means nobody can get access to the site in any event until (the Orange County Fire Authority) has finished their work and knocked this thing down completely,” he said. And since Wagner said the expectation is for the Navy to really help only with direct site cleanup, he said he’s not particularly bothered that the Navy hasn’t put boots on the ground yet.

On Friday, Navy officials said they also were anxious to move forward with the cleanup and were happy that the contract with the city was approved.

The $1 million, which city officials will use to head up the cleanup project, will help with debris removal and emergency disposal of residual materials, site security, and mitigation of fugitive dust emissions, Navy officials said.

“Further, we will be engaged with the city to address the remainder demolition and debris removal,” said Navy spokesman Chris Dunne. “We are also coordinating with the U.S. EPA to regarding next steps.”

While local officials and residents have wondered where Navy personnel have been, Dunne said multiple people from the Navy’s Base Realignment and Closure Program have been busy this week talking with the city and attending meetings mostly via Zoom. They’ve also been responding to letters sent by Congress members.

“We are still very much in the reactive mode,” he said. “With the agreements signed, we will look to the city to see how to team up and have a Navy presence at the site.”

Dunne said two Navy experts, one is an environmental expert and the other is the base closure manager who is intimately familiar with the hangars, are going to be the ones onsite first.

Dunne said any perception that the Navy “doesn’t care” is inaccurate. “We do care deeply; that’s why we’re here,” he said.

“It will fall on BRAC and the city to agree on what will be done with it,” he said of the hangar property, adding that most certainly, as part of the cleanup, there will be soil remediation to make sure there is nothing dangerous in the ground that could later be beneath a children’s playground or an apartment building.

Here are answers to some other common questions still lingering around health concerns and safety testing in the wake of the fire.

Q: The Board of Supervisors, along with the city of Tustin, declared a state of emergency due to the fire late Thursday afternoon. Why, and what does that mean about the seriousness of the ongoing incident?

A: “That is not a sign to people that, oh my gosh, life and limb are at risk and Armageddon is upon us,” Wagner said. Instead, he said the declaration is largely about making sure the county can make quick moves and get access to the resources and funds it needs to respond to the situation.

When a local government declares an emergency, it lets them cut through some red tape in terms of the usual process to hire contractors such as hazardous materials experts to help deal with the aftermath of such a disaster. It can also give local governments access to additional funding to help pay for those efforts. And it can potentially make it easier for residents and businesses who suffer financial impacts from the disaster to seek compensation.

The county did request federal firefighting services to help the OCFA battle the blaze, Wagner said. But he said they were shot down, with no explanation for why those resources weren’t made available.

In terms of the urgency of the situation for residents now, Wagner said, “I think the operative word is caution.” He said to follow the county’s Emergency Operations Center tips and reach out for advice if needed. “But we’re not at this point any longer where we’re looking at any kind of imminent threat.”

Q: Should people seek medical attention if they had direct contact with ash or debris, particularly immediately after the fire ignited? Are there symptoms they should watch for related to impacts from exposure?

A: Residents should avoid touching any materials from the fire and wash their hands as soon as possible if they do have contact with any ash or debris, said registered nurse Sean Marchese, who’s an environmental toxin and oncology expert at The Mesothelioma Center with Asbestos.com. But Marchese said, “It is not necessary to seek immediate medical attention unless you have trouble breathing.” Documenting exposure to asbestos is important though, he said, and a medical professional can help in that regard.

“Exposure to asbestos does not cause immediate symptoms or health issues. It takes decades, often 20 to 60 years, for asbestos-related diseases to develop,” Marchese noted. “While a one-time, heavy exposure to asbestos can cause disease decades later, ongoing exposure over time has greater risk. Most people who develop asbestos-related diseases worked with asbestos for years.”

While Wagner hesitated to offer any medical advice, he said, “If there is someone who’s worried, I would absolutely say check with your own medical professional or call our hotline.”

Q: Is it OK to let pets outside now if you’re near the hangar? Are there symptoms to watch for in animals?

A: The Tustin Legacy Animal Hospital, which is close to the hangar site, forwarded an email they’d sent to their pet owners with this advice:

“We highly recommend staying indoors and keeping your pets indoors as much as possible. Run your air conditioners and air filters to help keep your home air circulated and clean. Please monitor your pets for any signs of respiratory difficulty, collapse, pale/blue gums/tongue, or other concerning signs, and notify us as soon as possible if you have concerns; or call VCA Orange County Veterinary Specialists at 949-654-8950 if it’s after-hours.”

Q: Are there any plans to help residents in the vicinity get air purifiers, masks or other protective gear?

A: That’s not something that’s been discussed, Wagner said. But he said as they bring the consultant on board, they’ll run through different scenarios that might help the public.

Q: Air quality testing showed asbestos at concentrations of up to 27%. What do those levels mean? Can you put that in context in terms of the risk?

A: The local air quality district has deferred all questions to the county.

Wagner said he didn’t have details on what the exact numbers mean. But he said air district officials did say the levels that came in Wednesday were “concerning,” which is why schools were canceled in Tustin on Thursday, residents were encouraged to wear masks and other protective steps were taken.

“Test results that show concentrations of asbestos up to 27% in ash and debris are serious,” Marchese said. “This percentage of asbestos means the ash and debris are dangerous to touch or disturb in any way. And it means the air quality in the area may have been affected.”

Q: What levels of lead, arsenic and nickel were detected?

A: Wagner said he hadn’t seen hard numbers on those levels. Those reports weren’t included in materials published by the county, and the air district didn’t respond to requests for more information.

Q: What are the results of testing on samples taken Nov. 9?

A: Those results weren’t in yet as of late Friday morning, Wagner said. He was told it could take 24 hours, so he hopes they’ll have more information soon. But Wagner said air district officials did relay that levels for metals and other hazards were “coming back to virtually normal” in latest samples.

Q: How far from the site has sampling been done? What’s the furthest distance contaminated material has been found to travel?

A: Wagner said he didn’t have any hard numbers in terms of telling people within, say, one mile that air quality was safe. He said he asked the air quality district to take samples from beyond the immediate vicinity of the hanger, but was told that wouldn’t be happening. He said that tells him they’re not concerned about more widespread pollution and that the hazards are “pretty well restricted to the environs around the hangar.”

Q: What is the planned schedule for continued testing? And when and how will results from those tests be made public?

A: The county is partnering with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to monitor any long-term air and ground contaminants. There’s no firm timeline yet for when and how often that testing will take place or how results will be disseminated, Wagner said. But he said the tests will happen as often as experts recommend and that results will be made public.

City of Tustin California Budget at a Glance

https://www.tustinca.org/DocumentCenter/View/7888/2023-Fiscal-Overview-Infographic

City of Tustin Paychecks

https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/search/?a=tustin&q=police&y=

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